In 2012, Alex Bosco of SB Tactical observed a disabled combat veteran struggling to manage a gun safely one-handed and crafted the first Pistol Stabilizing Brace in his garage. There are even accessories specifically designed as cheek rests for pistols, which are ATF-approved in form and function and put your face the correct distance for any normal rifle optic: https://www.thordsencustoms.com/ar-pistol/cheek-rest-kits.html. Just look at the NFA database. In fact it is precisely because large format, heavy pistols such as AR-15 pistols are difficult to control with a single hand that ATF gave its stamp of approval to SB Tactical, inventors of the pistol brace, back in the day. Wouldn’t doing away with SBR permission slips be COMMON SENSE based on….SCIENCE? If an increase in short barrel rifles with pistol braces didn’t cause problems, then how could they possibly justify continuing with SBRs as an NFA item? When times are good, most people will comply with the law, even if they don’t agree with it because the threat of punishment. Initially designed by SB Tactical as a stability-improving device for wounded and disabled veterans, pistol braces are an ideal accessory for AR-15 pistols and pistol-grip shotguns due to the increased control, improved aim and additional support they provide. Honey Badger, XM2010, C22, R4, MSR, CSR, AAC, BARNES BULLETS (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykTfyrMiXps). Senators to ATF: Explain Pistol Brace Issue Link copied to clipboard. When SB Tactical wanted to make a functional change — length adjustment — they submitted that and were approved. Weve all been conditioned by TV and movies to act like sheep. One day this might be The truth about Slingshots ? This list was sent to me by a friend who lives on Whidbey Island. Alexander Arms 6.5 Grendel Highlander Pistol Review, Top 5 Braced Pistols for Hog Hunting in 2020, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykTfyrMiXps, Remington at Gunsite! Not sure why this is an either-or. Maybe Is a pistol that is ‘light enough’ no longer ‘light enough’ if you attach a flashlight? This is likely invisible to them now, because times are relatively good, but they’re in for a nasty surprise when times turn bad and they try and lean on a populace that doesn’t believe in them. However, you cannot add a stock to a pistol since the government would consider it a short-barreled rifle. When it comes to things that could make you a felon, subjective criteria really shouldn’t be the deciding factor. 2. We can be our own worst enemies! I don’t buy that. The proposed ban applies to certain pistol braces, which had been previously blessed by BATFE as lawful accessories. “This is a massive problem with the entire bureaucratic state. With everything going on the past 4 years? Biden hates guns cause China hates us having them. Thanks Trump, Diane Feinstein approves. …………/….//……….. …\\….\ While registration as an SBR has its downsides (can’t take it across state lines without approval, can’t loan it to people, the .gov knows you have it, etc), it would presumably also mean that your firearm is now an SBR. I know you don’t want to hear this, but in the grand scheme of politics POTG are a minority voting bloc. “Too heavy to shoot one handed” is meaningless. The real question coming out of this may not be “is sticking a brace on an AR pistol creating an SBR or AOW”, eg, the brace is the issue, but if they are going to say that AR pistol isn’t even a pistol even without the brace. ………../….//………… ….\\….\ This is not accurate. Call your representatives. Like anyone is using a pistol brace as a brace and not a buttstock, quit deluding yourselves, just go get a tax stamp.. Maybe, if folks weren’t constantly posting videos and pics running through a d-60 mag with the brace shouldered the whole time no one would give a crap about braces actually being misused as shoulder stocks and leave it alone. 3. Eventual confiscation probably. I mean if I make a 32LBS magazine for a 9MM M&P Shield that pistol is now capable of accepeting a magazine that makes it impossible to wield with just one hand. There are various styles and configurations of AR pistol braces, with some resembling traditional stocks, and others being just a padded buffer tube. ATF and DOJ needs a rewrite/abolish. you will all cave, even the site is moderated and controlled by ATF and FBI. Add to Wish List Add to Compare. It’s legislation by fiat, by bureaucracy, by unelected officials, because our actual legislators are too afraid to stick their necks out and sign their name to specific, well-crafted laws and they’re also too lazy, since there’s really no incentive for them to create good law anymore. That aside, history shows the following understanding of the Constitutional test of law: If we the people can’t self-regulate (understand and comply with the law) the law is unconstitutional. Green tip ammo was to be made criminal, then that was reversed. Then the Special Agent uses the “objective design features” to prove his point. If you're interested in what else the The Captain's Journal has to say, you might try thumbing through the archives and visiting the main index, or; … Also, the NFA is trash that’s very much counter to the point of the 2A. For any particular situation, it is highly recommended that a licensed local attorney be consulted for an accurate interpretation. Hopefully we can get the NRA to rid itself of Wayne and his gang so it will actually have leaders that fight for our rights instead of their bank account statements. Yes, I’d agree, the bumpstock was pretty useless. History. There have been .50 BMG pistols for decades that weigh 15+ pounds, which is a lot more than any AR pistol you’ll find. List of Banned Firearms in Canada May 1 2020. The ATF is looking to crack down on a loophole that allows owners of AR-15s, AK-47s, and other automatic and semi-automatic rifles to modify their rifles into pistols by use of what's known in the industry as a "pistol brace." That’s not true, because the document doesn’t actually do anything. With SB and other companies this was 100% above board and literally, specifically done at ATF’s direction. “Slingshots are illegal to make or sell in Massachusetts.”, And New Jersey, at least in 1980. I know of no debate, ever, questioning the legality or purpose of “cheeking” a braced gun. )… ) No, Pistol Braces Are NOT Banned . If they left one or two at a time no one would notice. Trust me, bureaucrats do NOT consider themselves answerable to you, even indirectly. If you did, you just are not very smart. I will not comply…edicts from entities that cannot create laws are not law…even if they attempt to base their “rules”, and I use the term lightly, based on existing laws. ATF Backs Down on Pistol Brace Ban and Registration. Does any addition to the buffer tube cross the pistol-to-SBR fuzzy line? Let’s start several decades ago. Besides, gun ownership is greatly under-reported among Leftist scum. Just give them the pistol brace, and they will let us keep our pump shotguns. It is trying to find loopholes…and firearms folks keep screwing up what they try to accomplish. Some tactics never die, they just get regenerated, Special Hunting Weapons & Tactics™ - The Center of Gravity for Tactical and Long Range Hunting, Tailhook Pistol Brace – Gear Head Works Changes the Pistol vs. SBR Game in 2017, 2016 Update: SBR vs. All built on 80% lowers labeled #2, #3, #4 etc. Paul Ryan? I had one, and let’s just say that retaining accuracy wasn’t really a big priority. While at the moment many would like to broadly blast them verbally, I won’t. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-guides-importation-verification-firearms-gun-control-act-definition-pistol. So that the firearm industry and the public understand exactly what is and is not kosher when it comes to a pistol brace. Bans assault pistol stabilizing braces that transform assault pistols into assault rifles by allowing the shooter to shoulder the weapon and fire more accurately. This is a massive problem with the entire bureaucratic state. Pistol braces were originally designed to assist persons with a disability. For example, it would appear any magnified optic that is not a long eye relief pistol scope would make the pistol a rifle. You have entered an incorrect email address! Update: The ATF announced that it has “withdrawn its guidance” concerning pistol braces, which means pistol brace guidelines will remain as they are, for the time being. The rub was that all of us succumbed to the inevitable temptation to fire brace-equipped pistols from the shoulder. Initially, pistol braces weren’t much of an issue. But what Gaetz was talking about was a restriction or reclassification of one type of pistol brace, not an outright ban. Please refer to the document for the full list of “objective” factors by which ATF will determine “pistol” or “rifle.”. Or, perhaps, are they part of a group – some inside government, many outside – who firmly believe that they are, and SHOULD be, holding OUR leashes? For instance, there are how many millions of law abiding citizens who are gun owners? You’re telling me that ATF’s fancy new “Objective Factors” document is comprised almost entirely of “we’ll know it when we see it” sort of generalizations? Dave Bahde – Dr. WT…? But taken together with the rest of your build, would it become a problem? So one man’s brace is another man’s stock. Yes, yes it is. you live in a fantasy world where nobody is controlled by money.. Spot on. Guidance documents are not binding and do not have the force of law. Our braces are available for a wide variety of firearm platforms and provide you with all of the advantages of a handgun, but with an additional point of contact — adding greater stability, accuracy, and control. The new gwot (law abiding citizens) ! They are convinced (and they have substantial evidence to support that conviction), that they can influence elections, make subjective and inconsistent rules to suit their whims, engage in wildly disparate “enforcement” of their stupid “standards”, write legislation (as “advisors” to legislators), and get the result they want. But here’s a quandary – LoP for a 4’11” person might net a brace too short for a 6’4″ person to effectively use as a brace. Blame Congress, blame the President, blame the Courts…and then hold the American people responsible for accepting such governance. I’ll take 10 please. A pistol brace is an accessory that connects your forearm to the AR pistol to improve your shot. trump. I’m seen people shoot the unbraced ones one handed. A political solution would be for the President to shut down this garbage. In the middle east, slingshots kill people and cause serious injury to Jewish soldiers. How about We the People Fire all atf, epa, ira nsa, cia, fbi, tsa, all these corrupt organizations then start with the communist, socialist, Islamist, atheists, queers out of OUR OUR government then all corrupt politicians as well some to prison, some Deported citizenship revoked, other Firing Squad, it’s way past time to put this country back on the Right Track done with anything perverted or darn right wrong is good, and All that is good honorable is wrong No time to end this We are the boss NOT the government and none are above the Law Biden and his vile son need prison immediately. That joke is on us. I agree with you up to the point of “those holding their leashes”. Trusting the government and the media is trusting China. Please register your ar pistol with brace with the NFA. They like confronting people at ranges to inquire about things that aren’t any of their business just to see if you share their fetish for compliance. They can’t be bothered with your little pistol brace issue. (Read Leaked Docs) Posted on December 16, 2020 by Thomas K. Share this Shit: According to Ammo Land. Meanwhile, Democrats on Capitol Hill have arbitrarily included braces in their "forbidden" list in planned federal "assault weapon" bans. No and Hell No. Sure, there will be some out there who aren’t, but the same could be said of your career field, too. #1 or #2 won’t cut it. “White House orders pistol braces to be banned” Imagine clicking on your favorite news site or gun blog and reading those very words. The first and only time I know of that ATF went after a pistol brace did not turn out well for them: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/atf-suffers-rare-court-loss-in-ohio-short-barrel-rifle-prosecution/. Serious question about pistol/optics/intent: To my understanding, ar pistols can have slings on them and can be fired with a cheek rested on the buffer tube without any of the peculiar “reclassification” going on. ATF recently published a notice in the Federal Register that has the gun world up in arms – and it’s being reported as a ban on pistol braces. If you’re concerned, red red dots, not magnified optics. I once went into a local shop and encountered a whole crew examining presumably new 4473s in a back area not visible from the street. Again, this single factor doesn’t add up to an SBR with a brace instead of a stock. oh now I need my stuff moderated??? Errr, answer. Next April the cops will plug someone and it will be back on. If you want a stock on your AR-15 pistol, you must file paperwork and pay taxes to have the legal registration. I will guarantee you that the first order of business for every employee of ATF and every other federal and state agency is to keep the agency going and as well funded as possible. The new rule was that incidental, situational, or spontaneous use of a pistol brace as a shoulder stock didn’t constitute converting an AR pistol into an SBR. ATF’s claim is that it’s simply detailing in a clear, objective fashion the metrics by which it does, will, and has judged pistol braces. A few scant years ago, there was no such animal as pistol braces. The revised look at the way pistol stabilizing braces are categorized is not necessarily a surprise. The braces have been refined into a stock that has a remote resemblance to a brace. I think that the draft BATFE document is longer than the US Constitution. You want to classify a pistol as a SBR you just made us felons a handgun is a handgun you made it. Lol, what’s a “real” republican? The ATF is looking to crack down on a loophole that allows owners of AR-15s, AK-47s, and other automatic and semi-automatic rifles to modify their rifles into pistols by use of what's known in the industry as a "pistol brace." The brace is made from soft polymer rubber and is incredibly thick. Is that a holistic conclusion? Furthermore, our benevolent overlords are so graciously granting us clemency until such time as they aren’t. They are secretly trying to ban the brace. On page 4, the Special Agent doubles down on the “marketing” of the brace and brings up some case in 2019 that alleges the SBA3 is a shouldering device. Other practical thoughts? It is far better to not pass laws that either won’t be followed or won’t be enforced because this delegitimizes those institutions responsible for setting the rules. Whatever. I ignored it, along with my BB rifle…. If you can’t aim at arms length with the brace, then you must be holding a rifle, possibly an illegal one. ATF must have gotten to TTAG as well. Well, yeah but ATF doesn’t have the power to do that. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) recategorized a popular Q, LLC-manufactured AR-15 pistol with stabilizer brace as a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR), which places the gun under the purview of the National Firearms Act (1934). Lobbyists write the laws. Exactly where are all the riots now? Anyone else has to use sound logic based on well defined language, or else there’s no point in having laws at all. SB Tactical® Pistol Stabilizing Braces are designed and intended only for use as forearm braces. Gun owners have won a huge Christmas Eve victory! But is a rifle caliber bolt action silhouette pistol impractical? Slingshots and BB guns are deadly weapons. According to the evidence list for the upcoming trail, the equipment that brought about the alleged infraction included a Maxim CQB Pistol AR 15 PDW brace, Stark Express angled foregrip, and a flash suppressor that added about two inches to the 7.75-inch barrel. I realize ATF doesn’t have that power and this new Congress won’t, but I am a scientist and we have seen some uncontrolled experiments about the rationality of keeping certain NFA weapons on the list over the last decade. I’ve never even seen an ATF agent. What are you talking about? They ain’t on leashes, my friend – but they sure as hell want us to be. Lobbyists influence agencies as well. The fact that we are even discussing this is disgusting. All of my ranting aside, the idea of objective, standardized, reliably-unchanging factors for how ATF determines firearms classification is a good thing. One of the great universal constants of life is that the ATF cannot be trusted to be consistent. ~Dave Here is the list of Bills in Olympia that I got from Central Whidbey Sportsmen's News Letter Again, the legislature is planning to turn many law-abiding gun owners into criminals. The pistol brace has been somewhat of a controversial debate when it comes to the ATF and gun owners across the country. The less it is going to comply. Basically, what type and configuration of firearm the rogue bureaucracy gives its blessing for adornment with a pistol stabilizing brace, and what type it claims is just a short barreled rifle in pistol clothing. Indeed yes, as Trump did to bump stocks. Which they not only know, but explicitly state in this very document: To be clear once again, pistol braces are NOT being banned (start with the first complete sentence below): We’ve dealt with restrictions on what an acceptable brace format is in the past, such as the apparent 13.5-inch “length of pull” limit. And the same will hold true with holistic determinations of your favorite pistol brace equipped gun. Free SBR? Once a pistol always a pistol. . I want to be clear, there are no reports or suggestions that a pistol brace ban is coming but lets examine what could happen if they are deemed to be “illegal” without any due process like the bump stock was. The restrictions are only there for one reason and one reason only, to make purchasing and owning one more difficult. They have, by law, been given the authority to interpret and enforce the law as they believe is correct. Tricking the system is not beating the system, just puts honest people into jeopardy unnecessarily. Yes, you read that right. A little chilly out there for their activities. That isn’t happening. When the Indian Jamaican princess takes over she will have the ATF declare all ARs illegal just like that. It’s going to be a long, long four years (and I hope not longer). The ATF is going against executive orders and making secret rules and policy without the public's knowledge and yet are held responsible to follow said secret rules. If pistol braces are all declared to be rifle stocks, a user can still attach the device to a long-gun configuration firearm. Or, use their email form. Just a few years ago, as AR pistols began to gain popularity before braces were a thing, many gurus suggested “cheeking” the buffer tube to aid in accuracy. And most gun owners yawned. The rational result of this push by ATF is to push legislation to remove SBRs from the NFA. I would say “friend” like you did, but you ain’t my friend. The prior … Now, in a little over a month, may the incoming President direct ATF that braces are not permitted? The ATF said it was good to go, but then in the wake of a mass shooting, under the Trump administration, they reversed course. usually identifiable by the frown on their faces…these guys rarely, if ever….smile….and I used to work alongside them….. Just give them the Bump Stock. Another example is the sawed off shotgun that is less concealable than either Keltec’s KSG or any number of legal handguns up to 12 gage none of which appear to have generated a crime wave. No, Pistol Braces Are NOT Banned . Jeremy can clarify, but as I understand it, an NFA serial number has to be a certain way to be legal. Like statistician nerds or LARPing lawyers stacking fantasy sports teams. “Who cares?” “Doesn’t affect me.” “Who needs them, anyway?” “Stupid toys.”. Mitch McConnell? You get the idea. Too much in ATF’s estimation. If I brace the wrong way wouId I be let out of jail like the dirtbags in NY and CA who actually misuse firearms? Ensure you are properly covered, Join The Silvercore Club Regulations Amending the Regulations Prescribing Certain Firearms and Other Weapons, Components and Parts of Weapons, Accessories, Cartridge Magazines, Ammunition and … I feel like a lot of gun owners like complying. Did anyone expect anything different to happen? This device secured a gun to the shooter’s forearm and … The legal path to the AR pistol brace is a long one. And if you can “cheek” it, you can run an ACOG or other magnified or thermal optic. Cartridge-wise only the first is a pistol. I’m no stake holder in either of those, nor an affiliate, etc. The past 2+ years have demonstrated actively not complying gets you whatever you want plus protected hero status. He lives outside of Austin, TX. Didn’t Trump have an executive order that said two regulations had to be removed prior to any new ones? The list was retired from the Canada Gazette. The same liberals and RINO’s will be hitting us with a barrage of gun control schemes. ,,,,,,,Bump stocks is a machine gunm, well if that’s true then the army should save the U. S. taxpayer a lot of money because bumpstoxks are cheaper then a machine gun. Was this post recent or could it have been in reference to the OAL decision regarding pistol braces not too long ago. I use two hands to shoot my CZ-P10 C. Does that make it an SBR?? So this is actually a power ATF has. You don’t need a lawyer to know this. That would be a discussion for another day, but this holistic approach to gun control is a bad idea from its components to its legal foundation. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Braces going away would certainly hinder the popularity of a lot of short guns, but if “large pistols” get called rifles or something else, a lot of the imports will be killed, sub gun styles like scorpion, APC, sp5 or mp5 guns, Bren, etc. ….\…………..(…………)……………./. and that example is both cool, and effective. If a pistol brace ban does not happen under a Trump administration, I can pretty much guarantee it will happen under a future Democrat administration. A group of Republican Congressmen is warning federal firearms regulators to slow their roll when it comes to what could be a ban on popular pistol braces. Either way, it’s going to take an proven organization like Gun Owners of America or the Firearm Policy Coalition to make any practical difference. FYI --- 1) SB 5444/HB 1387: A ban on unregistered semi-autos and magazines. Your email address will not be published. Brace-equipped pistols are still legal. So this weight thing, ANY and all pistols of any caliber & model that accept magazines can & will be outlawed if some one designs & builds a big enough magazine? Slingshot a few small rocks up into the murder (of crows/ravens, donchaknow), and they skedaddle. Instead of the legislature actually creating laws, they simply give authority to a giant government agency to interpret a really broad law and to enforce it as they please.”, Clarence Thomas and another Justice have expressed interest in clipping the wings of bureaucratic over-reach, and maybe this could be the way to do it…, “He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.”, I used to work for a state agency that had, during my tenure and before, been useful to state government, but had fulfilled its original purpose in 1939. This is the pistol brace that started it all. Most of ya’ll dumb asses still support him. It looks to me like all the criteria highly subjective and each and every pistol would have to be submitted for examination to know for sure. However, in my opinion, that doesn’t add up either. Perhaps it’s more like the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms Explosives Confusion Entrapment and Subjugation (or BATFECES)? A 60 round mag might or might not make the pistol a rifle, based on weight making it impractical. If short barreled rifles are so very dangerous, and ATF considers some percentage of these brace-equipped pistols to be short barreled rifles, why haven’t we seen a related increase in crime or in criminal acts committed with brace-equipped guns? .././…/…./…./.|_……_| .\….\….\…\.\.. Pistol brace design has evolved over time, but this classic pistol brace remains of the industries favorites. Besides, the more ATF goes back and forth on what is and is not acceptable, based not on actual, explicit law but rather on the ever-changing opinions of its personnel on how the agency interprets the law and intends to enforce the law, the less a well-intentioned public is going to care. Possibly, the BATFE will just revert back to their last decision and state that the user cannot place the brace against the shoulder and there will be no confiscation of the braces as some gun owners fear. A3 Tactical Offset Modular Side Folding Arm Brace for Tailhook - … Sign, copy, paste, and share please https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/disband-atf-1. So what happens if you make or acquire one after the letter was posted? Biden made clear his intentions for gun ownership, and the pistol brace business would just be the beginning of the toll he’d like to take on the second amendment. Trump is the president right now…. ATF Backs Down on Pistol Brace Ban and Registration. There is only 24 hrs in a day and btw…who has owned the house for the last four years? Many in the shooting and hunting space have already sounded the alarm over the pending ATF pistol brace rule change. The ATF only reluctantly approved the addition of a pistol stabilizing brace to big-boned pistols as an aid to allow disabled shooters to run their guns one-handed. I’m with him ^^^. This is again a right to be taken from us that won’t solve a thing. Yet, put a bipod on a pistol brace equipped firearm, and holistically speaking, you’re probably weighting the scale towards SBR instead of braced pistol, per the proposed rule making. I suspect no braced Shockwave or TAC-14 would be acceptable, but who knows. They would need to come in as single stack mag well sporting rifles, I hope that isn’t where this is going. I don’t know, they may be preoccupied at the moment, but can’t hurt, right? Accurate reviews that reflect the true user experience he banned bump-stocks ( unregulated. 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